The story of the Imam and State Security.

Now ...
state security has given out a report on a certain Antwerp Imam.
But before that we need to state that this is the same Imam, Nordine Taouil that was ushering muslim girl not to go to school if they are not allowed to wear the headgear at school.
Coincidently the same person that voiced the wish for muslimschools if the girls can't wear the headgear in a western school.
NOTE:: that has actualy been APPROVED by the Belgian government !!! On the sole condition the muslimsociety finds the funds for it themselves.
One chairman (Selahattin Koçak) uttered that if there is approval for seperate muslimschools, the entire idea of intergration is being undermined. In fact, the theory exists that Taouil provoked the entire debate around headgear so he'd have a reason to ask approval for seperate muslimschools.
And I must say that I myself can not grasp at the reason for the approval ... because of the folllowing.

Yet had a "controversial" history besides that ...
for instance one of his public speeches was somewhat remarkable.
" Muslimblood is the best blood in the world. We don't smoke, we don't drink and we only have sex after marriage. Seems like Flanders could use our blood."
I won't even begin to state all the things that are wrong in that sentence.

For lets take a look at the palmares of this specific individual.
Brought into the scope of Mosque el Mouslimin. (( Jan Palfijnstraat ))
It's a known fact that young people frequenting this mosque are pushed into studies abroad in the socalled madrassas. Wich are basically muslimschools or qur'anschools.
Nothing wrong with that in itself , surely not ... . Just that madrassas themselves are funded and lead by fundamentalists. So in Belgium, Antwerp even, we now have young people that came back from madrassas being taught how to hate the west, coming from those schools in Jordany, Pakistan .... so it's a little wonder to find out that the 'Groupe Islamique Combattant Marocain’
(( group for islamic marrocan combattants ... yes ... combattants )) has its roots in Mosque el Mouslimin.

Well enough of the background scetch.
Here are some interesting facts on Taouil himself.
He was an imam in that mosque.
A known supporter of the armed Jihad (holy war) against westerners and Jews.
(Antwerp has lots of Jews , in fact not that long ago we had our own version of Krystalnacht, but that's food for another topic)
Plus, a lot of young people who where recruited by him and el Mouslimin are now wanted by the state of Marocco itself .. for organised acts of terror.

And agreed.
The fact the boss of state secruty, the big honcho himself making a public good-riddance of Taouil is a somewhat questionable.
Political execution is what that is.
On the other hand .... calling him a muslimextremist is not a grasp of thin air ...
There is fact valid reason for considering him a dangerous individual, one that aims to undermine western democracy and gradually replacing it with one more ... islamesq ...
Why else would he press for seperate muslimschools ?
And it just can not be denied that he was one of teh major instigators at the school-headgear protests.
And that he promotes the rejection of western'ism ..
Here is an interesting debate on television.

And it doesn't show of courage imo , to speak of "scientific proof" and then only uphold some kind of holybook.
In fact it shows severe antiscience. Dare I say the preaching of ignorane ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MMpxlN-TdQ&feature=related

(teacher)
Who here believes in evolution theory?
High.
Lift your hands please.
Yes well, then we have to conclude that in this case it's muslims siding against non-muslims.

(students)
- Because we orginated from Adam and Eve.
- THat's in the Qur'an.

(teacher)
It's in the Qur'an, that everything got created simultaneously.
We have proof , that some day, in our evolution, of humankind having a tail.
And we have a tailbone.
And that is a residue of what once was a tail.

(students)
That's possible but are you trying to make us believe that?

(teacher)
You say you don't believe that because it's in the Qur'an but there is no real scientific evidence.

(rumble i cant make out from students)

(teacher)
Yes. There we go again.


(host)
that where images from a report of TerZake (a tv programm dealing with political issues).
Here's Johan Braeckman , scientific filosopher, here you have a case where you would have to promote and defend that theory and when we see that you can't help to think there's a lot of work to do.

(JB)
Yes.
I'm not sure weither I should promote or defend it, it should speak for itself.
That theory has a extraordinay strong position.
The evidence is overwhelming but we can deduct a problem with the (un)willingness to accept that, so the next few years I'm going to exercise on that and try to work away much of the incomprehension and misunderstandings around it.

(host)
Is it true that 1 / 5 or 1 / 4 students don't agre with the theory ?

(JB)
One on 4 Belgians.
Or so tests conclude.
But people from an islamic background, there the numbers go as far as 80% of the people questioned, put to the same test.

(host)
On my other side is Nordine , an imam of Islam.
Well, the muslims don't accept that theory.

(imam)
First and for all , evolutiontheory is just a theory that's being covered up as science.
But we have enough scientific evidence that disprooves that theory.
BEcause in the time of Darwin , science was not particularly advanced.
Means where primitive, that's why there are a few reasons why we don't .. we don't consider it a theory but an hypotheses

(host)
Well let me point again at the image we just saw.
What startled me is that ALL the muslim students rejected that theory.

(imam)
Yes.
Indeed.

(host)
Is that normal?

(imam)
That is normal
WE learn that God created us.
So the creation story is not just in the Qur'an but in all public books, such as the Bible and the Torah, they confirm it.
So it's impossible that evolution or creation formed during stages.
That's unacceptable to us.

(host)
Is it the same story as Adam and Eve? As in the Bible.

(imam)
It's the same story.
It's almost identically the story as in the Bible or Torah.
So all those books that have been made public confirm that story that God created us through clay he breathed life in.
So we do not accept the other theory because it's an ideological system through wich they want to fight faith in religion.
(( insert me :: that is the funniest example of demagogy i've ever encountered))

(host)
Yes well, there you will have a lot of work convincing people I believe.

(JB)
I think so too. But ...

(host)
Did you know there was such counterforce against the theory?

(JB)
I've been aware for a few years.
So in a certain sense I'm glad we adress it now.
Because there's a fundamental problem here, we have to , we have to admit that, or recognise and we will have to do something about it too.
And I do think the responsability from amongst others the imam is rather large.
If you please let me explain.
It's not just about evolution theory, but science in general.
Science works with logical means, works with experiment and brings forth hyptheses that can be challenged , debunked and even explored further.
And so on.
That counts for science in general, so these people are not just rejecting evolution theory but a scientific attitude in general.
And there already are problems with marginalisations of these people in general.
They have a hard time, they don't get a job and don't flow through to higher studies.
But they are in fact pre eliminating themselves by taking the Qur'an too serious, and not just the Qur'an but the Bible too , it's not just about Islam in itself.
But people coming from highschool and adapting to a literal interpretation of for instance the Qur'an, they would not for instance only have problem in studying biology , but neurolgy or engineer sciences or medicine and so on.
So i think there is a fundamental problem and a large responsability for everyone who is playing part in this .
And I think everyone needs to realise that accepting the course of scientific studies doesn't need to imply we need to underestimate the importance of traditions or that we reject those traditions from either Islam, Christianity or whatever.

(host)
So mister Nordine, scientific studies or evidence that is against the Qur'an, you say you will not accept that.

(imam)
Certainly not.
In the Qur'an one can find a whole bunch of scientific information.
(( insert me :: demagog -.- ))
Science is not contradictory ...

(host)
But evolves ofcourse doesn't it?

(imam)
It evolves indeed but ..

(host)
When has the Qur'an being written.

(imam)
1400 years ago.

(host)
1400 years ago.
(( insert me :: this guy said science was not that advanced and therefor doesn't believe it can be right but has no problem to belive somethign that had been written more then 10 centuries ago ! ))

(imam)
BUt it's not about the Qur'an but about science itself.
Science itself contradicts that very theory (of evolution).
For instance DNA, how can DNA all of a sudden transform itself into an uh - uh proteine.
There have been scientific studies contradiction evolution teachings.
It's not about the Qur'an, you say the Qur'an ..

(( insert me :: honestly would any comment I make actually make more sense out of that statement, it's clear to me he himself has no idea what he's talking about, trying to pin down a scientist on his own field while his very sayings proove he stays as far away from the matter as Allah perscribes........))

(host)
OK, well, are there scientists that don't accept the theory or that debunk it?

(JB)
With all due respect but I think sir has been misinformed.
(ugly face from Nordine)
In the entire world, the basic principles of evolution are fundamentally accepted.
Ofcourse there are internal discussions, that's so in every healthy science.
Go to a congress and you'll notice those people sometimes argue, fight and contradict eachother.
But the fundamental aspects of in this case evolution theory, they are accepted !
Like it's something that exists and that it's a matter of millions of years.
That there are species that are extinct because we are able to examine the fossiles.
Sir refers to DNA and genetics , that is somethign from the 20'th century, you can ask that to scientists all over the world , they will all say that the different branches of genetics and the other branches of the newer more recent sciences , they perfectly agre with the basic principles of the Darwinian theory.
Look, if there would have been real evidence , that fundmentally undermine this theory .. then the world of science would accept that.
As long as the evidence is powerful enough.
You'd win a nobel prize !
Everyone would love eventual wrong insights , if there are any, to be corrected !
THat is how we advance !
But there aren't any.
((first direct look at Nordine))

(imam)
there are enough scientists that do correct it.

(host)
Like who for instance?

(imam
(name I can't understand) for instance, also some international associations that have scientifically proven that your theory is not correct mister professor.
You don't need to state that science contradicts these findings , many are afraid the ywill not be accepted by scientific magazines , academical recognition and so on.
Wich makes them not wanting to come out with their studies; by wich they will not be able to promoted to a higher level.
And that's a problem of scientists but scientists who tell us the truth ((??)) who mean to say that our ancestors where not apes but humans that have been created by God.
THat's deceit, so you don't have to fool people in believing and proclaiming that they stem from monkeys . No, man is a unique creation of God. A unique creature created by God with intelligence and brains by wich this creation can not be compared with any other creature.


-- end-- part 1/2

Well.
How can I eve begin to name all the things that I feel are plainly wrong with what Nordine said.
For instance, he never had a argument that stroked with the actual content of the discussion.
Can you blame state security for keeping a close watch on this guy, who acutally does has an underestimated influence on young people (see the headgear protests in Hoboken and Borgerhout, Antwerp) .
A guy that would be a selfchosen analfabetic if he would have had the choice.
Whenever there is a loaded topic at hand, the only reference he makes is that of the Qur'an , an imam who has close links to a mosque that is under heavy state watch. A muslimschools that catergorically sends young people to jihadi combattant schools.